FBC Boerne Youth
Messages from First Baptist Church Boerne's Youth Ministry. Visit us at https://www.fbcboerne.org/youth/
FBC Boerne Youth
DNow 2025 // Breakout: Engaging a World of Beliefs - Pastor Daniel Justice
Pastor Daniel Justice leads this breakout session at DNow 2025: Changed called "Engaging a World of Beliefs."
In this bonus podcast episode, Pastor Daniel Justice explores the radical shift in young people's attitudes toward faith and church involvement. We discuss the reasons behind this trend, focusing on the importance of engaging in open conversations, understanding worldviews, and building relationships rooted in compassion and truth.
• Examination of the decline in church attendance
• Discussion of young people's feelings towards church
• Importance of listening to doubts and questions
• Understanding the definition of worldviews
• The significance of having open dialogues
• Exploring the concept of absolute truths versus relative truths
• Emphasis on building relationships over arguments
• Call for community support and genuine connections
Thank you, guys for picking this breakout. So, um, that would have been really. That's really scary. If you like, volunteer to do one of these and everybody can just go where they want to, and if, like, nobody showed up, I mean, that would be kind of be kind of sad. So, but thank you for making me not feel like horrible and question everything, uh, about my life. Right, like nobody wants to come. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you're here, though, because this is going to be, I think, a really helpful topic. It's definitely one that I am really passionate about having conversations with students about, because I think it's something you guys are going to face as you grow up. You guys are going to face as you grow up. You're already facing it, and I think, as adults, you guys are going to be a generation that's going to have to deal with this long after. Like you know, I can't remember my name anymore, and you know, like they put me in a home somewhere, right, like you guys are going to be the ones who are going to be dealing with something we're seeing, um right now in our culture. Your generation, um, and the generation right before you, and even um, depending on where you are um, like your age is, we're seeing something in our culture that, uh, we've never seen before like this. And here, here's what it is you guys, your generation, are walking away in record numbers from wanting to be part of a church, a local church, like like this one, and even beyond that, walking away from faith at all. Like, kind of there's like, as a generation your generation and the one before you has said I'm not sure that the church has the answers for life. That's kind of uh, a lot of your generation is saying that, uh, and that's a big deal. Uh, because we've seen a slow decline in churches, church attendance and involvement over the years, but now it's like happening, like all of a sudden, there's been this big spike in it.
Speaker 1:And so, as a pastor and as somebody who was a youth pastor for about 25 years, so doing youth ministry was my life Right To look and see people that were in my youth groups growing up start to say, you know, I'm just going to walk away from this. Right, that's hard, that's hard to watch and it makes me say what did we do wrong? Right, like, like what happened, that you know that you would even grow up around the things of God, hearing the Bible taught, preached, maybe, being in a youth group, maybe even serving in a church, going on a mission trip or working with children's ministry, helping with vacation, Bible school, all those kinds of things. Right, that was kind of. Maybe people who grew up doing those things get to an age where they're like, no, like this, just isn't it, like I don't know that this really matters, like what is that about? Um, and here's what I know.
Speaker 1:Maybe nobody in this room will ever be there. Maybe you guys are the ones who are going to say no, we believe Jesus is the answer to life. Right, he is the one who's going to meet the deepest needs of my heart. He's the one. Right. The truth of God's word is the thing that I am going to hold on to, no matter what the world around me says I should or shouldn't do. Like the Bible is going to be the thing I base my life on. Maybe everybody in this room you're like no, I'm in, like, and nothing's really going to persuade me. And that's awesome. I hope that's true.
Speaker 1:But here's the deal. I bet, if you haven't already, in the very near future, some of your friends, maybe family members, maybe just classmates, uh, one day, maybe friends in college, uh, people you you work with, you're going to encounter this people are you're going to engage with, people who maybe at one point were leaning in to the things of God, but now they're like walking away from anybody. Already know people like that. Any of you guys have people in your life, maybe people you go to school with, who just say you know they believe something completely different from you, and I'm not even talking like another religion. They've just kinda, they've just kinda got their own views on everything and they question everything that has to do with Christianity. Anybody know people like that, all right.
Speaker 1:So how do you that can be intimidating, right, that can be intimidating to to try and engage with them? Right, because here's what usually happens. Kind of one of two things would happen. Either you would say, well, we're just not going to talk about God, right, like, we're just not going to bring that up, we're just going to talk about sports or current events or whatever. It might be right, you may just try to avoid anything that deals with faith so that it doesn't get awkward, right.
Speaker 1:Or the other option is you try to talk about it, but there's a little bit of fear of like what if they ask me something and I don't know how to answer them? Right? What if they question what I believe at my very core and it shakes me to where I don't know what to say, right, and then it gets awkward and then, and what if I end up losing that friendship? Or things get weird if it's a family member? I've got a couple of family members like that, and so those conversations can be tough, and so what I want to help you guys do for a few minutes today is actually kind of process how to do that, right, how, with all kinds of different beliefs and ideas that are out there in the world.
Speaker 1:I want to help to give you guys, hopefully, some clarity so that you can be confident in what you believe and so that you can engage in conversations with people who don't believe that without a lot of fear, right, and anxiety, right. To be able to be confident in the way that you still engage with people around you even if they don't they don't share the same convictions and values and beliefs that you do. So that sound good. You guys still want to stay in the room, okay, just making sure. Just making sure we're all still in here, all right. So here's what I want you to understand.
Speaker 1:Um, I want you to see some of the reasons, right, if this is true, I want you to see some of the reasons. Right, if this is true, I want you to see some of the reasons why people say they're walking away from church or faith or Jesus. Right, they may use all kinds of different phrases to say, but they're basically saying the same thing. Here's three of the top reasons. The church, they would say, has a lack of love or joy, kindness, generosity. Like the church doesn't seem very loving, christians don't seem very loving. So, you know, I just don't know that I want anything to do with that. That's one of the big reasons.
Speaker 1:People give another one the church wouldn't listen. Right, I was wrestling with doubts, I had questions, right, maybe circumstances in my life made me really wonder God, what are you doing? Right, I don't understand. I was taught all of this, but now, the things going on in my life, I don't know how to bring those two things together and reconcile them. And so I went to somebody in the church, maybe a pastor, maybe a small group leader, maybe, you know, maybe just a somebody, you know, a youth pastor. I went to somebody and said help me, because I'm I'm wrestling with doubts, I don't know what to do. And they didn't listen. They just told me to get over it, right. They just said oh, don't, don't wrestle with that, don't doubt, right. The problem's you right. Just quit doubting and just suck it up and believe, right. So that's a reason people walk away. They didn't feel like when they went to the church, that anybody actually cared enough to listen to the things they were struggling with.
Speaker 1:And the third one up here is the church was not able to engage or dialogue with them when there were opposing viewpoints being shared, right. Rather than be able to have a conversation that was peaceful, helpful, right. It just turned into like battle lines being drawn right. Like it was like well, now you're the enemy. If you don't believe what I believe, then we're just going to fight over it rather than have a conversation to figure out. Hey, where are we at? What's going on? Let's, let's try to talk about this kind of a thing. So these are three big reasons why your generation is saying, nope, the church doesn't have any answers for me. Now here's the thing about all three of these. They all have something in common. They all deal with something that you may have heard this, you may be familiar with this word, but they all deal with a worldview. All three of those reasons, and even others that we could look at, they get down. They all boil down to something at their core, and that is a person's worldview.
Speaker 1:What is a worldview? If you guys were going to define a worldview, what would you? What would you say? This Not a trick question, by the way what's a worldview? What is it? Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So, yes, it has to do with the way we see things. Yes, but do you know that each and every one of you in this room have a worldview? Whether you know it or not, you've got one. So what? What would you say? How would you define that then? Like, what is what is a worldview? Like, what is a worldview? Yeah, did you have something? Your viewpoint on how different people should be treated as humans and how you should react to things.
Speaker 1:And just the world? Okay, just as the world, right, yes, so it's kind of hard to describe, right, like you think, like you could define it just by the words right, world and view how we see the world. Right, that makes sense, but when you dig in, it's like, but, but what are we talking about here? That makes sense. But when you dig in, it's like, but but what are we talking about here? It's basically, it is your understanding of how things begin and how the world has meaning. Okay, that's a worldview, it is. It is at the most basic level, how you see the world.
Speaker 1:But when you really unpack that, it's not just how you look around and say, oh well, I see blue skies and I see trees, and I see, like, that's not what we're talking about. Right, it's more. It gets to the heart of, like, what is life all about? Why am I here? So worldview deals with like purpose. It deals with origin how did I get here? And if and once I know why I got here, like, what does that mean? Does life have meaning? Right, that is a worldview. Now you can go to school and you can study, like philosophy, and you can learn about all these different worldviews. Right, you can go to seminary, like bible college, like I did, and you can take classes like apologetics, where you learn how to defend the bible and defend your faith and you study worldviews.
Speaker 1:But here's the deal. Uh, your worldview doesn't have to have like a name, like one of the like classic, like worldviews. Right, everybody's got one. You've got a worldview. Whether you've ever really articulated it or sat down to try to like formalize it or not, you have a belief about how you got here, why you're here, what is the purpose of life? Is there right and wrong? How do we discover what is true and what is lies? Right? If I just started polling you guys and saying, right, tell me about you know the origin of people, how did we get here? You could tell me what you believe about that. Right? If I said, tell me how we know what is true, you could, you could tell me something. Right, you could. If I said, tell me how to know if life has meaning, you could, you could tell me something. Right, so you've got a worldview. Here's the deal. So do your friends? Right, everybody's got one.
Speaker 1:And so if we can get comfortable having conversations about worldview and realizing that a lot of the things people want to debate and talk about really get back to this idea of a worldview, it's going to be much easier for you to interact with people who question Christianity or question the Bible. So that's what I want us to do for a few minutes, is kind of understand how to have those kinds of conversations, because it's going to do two things it's going to strengthen what you believe when it's so that when it's challenged, it's going to strengthen what you believe when it's so that, when it's challenged Right, you can be confident that you're that you believe the right things. But it's also going to help you not kind of be taken aback when people challenge what you believe, so that you can actually try to help them get to the root of why they think what they do and why they believe what they believe right. If you wrestle with it, you're going to be in a much better place to help someone else wrestle with it along the way. Does that make sense? All right, so to do this, there's three things we're going to talk about here.
Speaker 1:When we talk about having conversations about worldview, there's three things we've got to remember. The first one only God can change a heart. The second one this is where we'll spend the most time to find, like we've got to remember, to find the truth substitute, and basically what we mean by that is if anybody has a worldview that is not rooted in what the Bible says about how the world began and how we can find purpose and meaning in life. If anybody has a worldview that doesn't line up with the Bible, right, what they've done is they have substituted the truth for something else. And if you can help them see that, you're well on your way to helping them think through, maybe, some of the inconsistencies of what they've chosen to believe, right. So we've got to learn how to do that. It's not a personal thing, right, it's no like we got to have a conversation about truth, because what we believe about truth really is going to determine how we see the world, and how we see the world is going to determine how we live. So finding what people have substituted for the truth is kind of a journey that we need to go on if we're going to have these conversations.
Speaker 1:And then, the last thing we've got to remember to build relationships, not build an argument. Right, as you engage with people who are questioning their faith or have walked away from the church or who have never been around the church and they're just kind of antagonistic toward the things of God. Right, you may, because you're passionate, because you love Jesus. Right, you may want to like let's have a debate, right, Anybody in here love a good argument and a good debate. One of my daughters does, right? Anybody in here love a good argument and a good debate. One of my daughters does, and I bet if you know my daughters you can tell me which one of my girls likes a good debate and a good argument, right? Here's the thing I've never seen someone argue someone else to Jesus, right. I've never seen anyone do that, right. I've never seen anyone do that. But I have seen people build relationships and those relationships become the conduit that God uses to help someone understand who Jesus is and start following him.
Speaker 1:So if we can remember these three things and know how to work, navigate these three things, I think we're well on our way to being able to do what it is we're talking about today. Fair enough, all right. So you want to look at these? Maybe break each of these down just a little bit here. Will that be helpful, all right? First one only God can change a heart. This one's pretty simple. Why would we say this is an important thing to remember?
Speaker 1:Because we can put way too much pressure on ourselves to think it's up to us to have all the right answers, to know what to say to someone who maybe questions something Right. You ever had somebody maybe that's not a Christian, or maybe they, you know, maybe they something right? You ever had somebody? Maybe that's not a Christian, or maybe they, you know, maybe they are, but they they've gone through something really difficult and they ask a question like why do bad things happen to good people? You ever heard that question? You ever asked that question? Sure Right, have you ever heard the question? Well, if God is loving and kind and if he's all powerful and can do anything he wants to do, why does he allow pain and suffering in this world? If he's good and if he's powerful, why would he do that? Those are hard questions, aren't they Right? And so we may really want to avoid those conversations. And so, because we're like I wouldn't know what to say to someone if they ask a question like that, right? So I'm just going to it's too much pressure. What if I say the wrong thing? What if I don't give them the right answer? Here's the deal you could give all the right answers in the world, but you can never change their heart. Just because you know the right words to say really doesn't mean you're going to ever help someone right? Get to the place where they place their faith in Jesus. Only God can do that, right. Only God can open someone's eyes to see the truth of the Bible, the truth of Jesus, and come to a place where they place his faith in them. So the reason I want you to understand this one is because of that first word, right there. I want you to relax, right. The pressure's not on you, right, even if you mess it up. Not on you, right, even if you mess it up. That's okay.
Speaker 1:I remember the first person that I ever got the opportunity to pray with, who placed their faith in Jesus. I was in middle school. I had my neighbor, a guy that lived across the street from me, his family. Like we were, like we were like Christian Christians in middle school, like where I lived, like it was, it was bad, like it was the right. You know, we we didn't even have a TV in the house, like. Like my mom and my sisters all wore skirts like down to their ankles. They wouldn't even wear pants, because Christian women didn't wear pants. Like we only read a King James Bible.
Speaker 1:I can think of a lot of other things. I didn't get to go outside and play on Sunday, because that was God's day and it was a day of rest, so I couldn't even go ride my bike on Sundays. I had to just sit on the couch and stare at my family. Yeah, you're right. Wow, yes, exactly what that was. That's called legalism, right, where you think the way you stay right with God is keeping a bunch of rules. And man, did my family have a bunch of rules, right, and we were judgy about people who didn't follow the same rules we did.
Speaker 1:Right, that was kind of my family when I was in middle school. Well, we had neighbors across the street. They were nothing like us. They didn't go to church. Strike one they cussed and they drank and they smoked. Strike two Right, and you know we could. Oh, the guy had an older sister and they and she wore a two piece bathing suit. Oh, strike three, they're done. Right, they are on a fast track to hell, right. That was kind of what we thought about these people that lived across the street from us, which was horrible. That was a horrible way to be and I'm so I hate that, right. I regret that so much. I didn't know any better, but I still I'll look back and I hate that.
Speaker 1:But the boy wanted to be my friend. That was my age, and he would always invite me to come over and spend the night. Well, do you think my parents were going to let me go into like that, like that den of iniquity over there at his house? And no, no, you can't go over there, right? But they finally said but you know, he can come over here and he can spend the night with you. I was like, okay, so we did.
Speaker 1:He came over and he started asking me he goes, you go to church, don't you? I said I do. He said I've never been to church. And so he just started asking questions. So like we were in sleeping bags in the living room floor, right, that was, we were having a sleepover and he was just asking these questions before we went to sleep.
Speaker 1:And he was asking me about what it means to be a Christian and what Jesus is all about. I said I never told anybody how to be saved and I tried to walk this guy through like what it means to follow Jesus and it was probably the worst like presentation of the gospel that anybody's ever given at any point in history. I fumbled all over that thing. My words were so messed up. I got confused in the middle of it, right, and I jumped to the end. I go no, I got to go back here. I mean, it was a train wreck, right. All the wrong words said it all the wrong way, right, I had to stop and start all over the place, right.
Speaker 1:But you know what happened at the end of that? He got saved. He gave his life to Jesus. Do you think it had anything to do with my words? No, absolutely nothing. So why would I tell you that story? Because this is God. God is the one working in people's hearts and if he wants to use you, he's going to use you, right, and he may, he may choose to use you, but don't feel this pressure that somehow you've got to be the one to do it. Cool. So just remember that. Let that kind of bring your blood pressure down, the anxiety level down, when you're talking to people. You don't need it.
Speaker 1:But now let's spend a little bit of time here in this section, because we said the second thing that we've got to do is find what people are substituting for the truth. But before we even think about that, we need to understand how we know what is true. Have you ever heard anybody say truth is relative before? No, if I, if somebody did say that to you. Well, if I believe, right, my worldview is that truth is relative. What are they saying about truth? What does that mean? Truth is relative. Yeah, the truth varies for each person. It's relative. What's the opposite of relative, concrete or another word, absolute Right? So people, people might say truth is relative. So basically, here's what they're saying your truth doesn't have to be my truth. What's true for you doesn't have to be true for me. Right, truth should be up to the interpretation of every single person. Right, that's that idea about truth.
Speaker 1:If I said truth is relative, the Bible doesn't talk about truth that way. The Bible talks about truth as being absolute Right. And what does that mean? There is things that are true and there are things that are not. And the standard for that is not each individual person. The standard for that is something else, right?
Speaker 1:And so the way the Bible talks about truth is to say, if something is true, then it has to be all three of these things you see up on the screen right now. It has to be all of these. It has to be universal, it's got to be constant and it's got to be objective. If it's going to be the standard for how we measure truth or how we measure right and wrong, it's got to be all three of these things, right? So if it's got to be universal, what does that mean? Yeah, applies to everything, right, applies to all people everywhere, right? If it's universal, right. So that means truth for us here in the United States can't be different for truth for people who live on the other side of the world. There's only one truth, because truth is universal, it applies to all people everywhere. But truth has also got to be constant. If it's a standard for truth, right. If it's how you're going to measure truth, it's got to be universal and it's also got to be constant. What does that mean? It can't, what? Yeah, it can't change, right. It can't be the standard for truth right now, but 20 years from now it's moved and now we've got a new standard for truth, right? Can't? No, truth is always truth. If it's true, it's always been true, it applies to everybody without exception and it doesn't change.
Speaker 1:And then the third one is it has to be objective. And this gets to that point of saying where people say truth is relative, right, if it's objective. That means the standard has to live outside of you because you're not objective about yourself, are you? I'm not objective about myself, right? Like I have definite opinions and I can't always see clearly about about what's going on in my life. Right, I need something outside of me that's objective to help me see things sometimes.
Speaker 1:Right, you guys ever have that happen where you have someone maybe it's your small group leader, right, that you're dealing with something and you're so right in the middle of it. Right, you don't know whether to go right or left or stop or keep going, right, and you're just so confused. But somebody that you share what's going on with. All of a sudden, they're able to give you, like, clarity and you're like huh, I hadn't thought about it like that, I hadn't seen that before. Why were they able to do that? Because they weren't in the middle of it with you. They were objective, they were on the outside looking in, right, and they could help you see clearly.
Speaker 1:Right, truth our standard for truth has to be objective. The source of it can't be within ourselves. The source of it can't be within ourselves, right? So all three of these things have to be part of our standard for what is true, how we measure truth. If any of these are missing, it isn't a good standard for truth. Would you agree with that? That if any of these conditions aren't met, it's not a good standard for truth? Would you agree with that? That if any of these conditions aren't met, it's not a good standard for truth? Right? What if it is something outside of you? And what if it is universal but it's not constant? Is that a good standard for truth If it's changing? Like we can say that right? We can say culturally, um, 50 years ago it was culturally believed right that a man and a woman living together before they got married was wrong, even if you weren't a Christian. It was just believed it was true, right and wrong. Right that it was wrong to live together before you got married. Is that, is that what our society says now? No, right, not at all Right. So the standard for right and wrong has moved, so it's not constant, right? So culture can't be a standard for truth. We've already said we can't be a standard for truth. Right. Already said we can't be a standard for truth. Right, because we change our minds all the time. Right, we're not objective, we're not constant. So all three of these things must be part of anything we would say we can use to measure what is right or wrong. So that's important to know. But then, so, knowing that, here's something I want you to think about with me, because these are the conversations that you're going to be having. These are the kinds of questions you can be asking, the kinds of things you can be looking for when you're talking to someone who maybe has a different worldview than you do. All right, so let's, um, anybody have a good scenario. I'll start there. I can give you one. But if you've got like a real life one I'd much rather like, I'd much rather use yours. If you've got like a friend, maybe, who you know, not necessarily part of another religion, but they're just kind of not religious and they have just definite ideas, right, that just really are anti what you believe as a Christian. Anybody got somebody like that already in your life that you'd love to take, that example for us to kind of dig into. Yeah, exists, but he doesn't. Okay, all right, cool. So let's take somebody like that Right. We might say that person we could use a word. You ever heard the word agnostic? Agnostic? It's just someone who isn't sure what they believe. They don't like deny that there's a God. They're just kind of indifferent. Right, it's like sure he may be there, but it doesn't really impact me in any way. Right, he may be, maybe not, I don't know. That's an agnostic, right, it's just someone who isn't sure what they really believe about, about God. So I think we could probably classify the person you're talking about that way. Right, it's like, oh, sure, he may be there, there may be a God, but I don't know that it's somebody I really am going to really base my life on or really give a whole lot of thought to. Okay, so how would you engage with somebody like that? You can use these, these questions to help with those conversations. And this is this is what I'm talking about when I say, like worldview conversations. Right, first of all, what's the God replacement in that person? What have they substituted, what have they put in the place of God in their life? And you guys know I'm starting from the place with this conversation that we believe the Bible is the word of God. We believe everything that we need to know about who we are right, that God created us in his image, that we are sinners in need of a savior and that the only way for our relationship with God to ever be right again is if someone took our place and paid for our sin. And Jesus is the one who did that, and we must place our faith in him in order to be saved and to be right with God. Right, that's the worldview of the Bible, right? And so someone who doesn't have that worldview? They have replaced God with something else in their life. So in conversation, right, because remember our third point, right that you've got to do this conversationally. You're not going to debate somebody to it, you're not going to argue somebody or beat them down to finally get them to give up and say, okay, I'll believe what you believe. It's not what's going to happen, right? So in conversation, how do you help someone begin to see what they've substituted for God in their life? What might you do? You could mention the possibility of things that could take over your life, and then you might mention one that needs. You might mention one that needs. You might mention one that's that you have a problem with, and then that person will start to realize, without you actually having to go to point it out, okay, all right. So asking good questions, right? Just kind of helping people unpack what it is they believe, showing possibilities. That's good. Let's take somebody who we would say maybe is agnostic. What have they substituted for God Themself? How so? I don't disagree with you, just help me think through that for a minute. How so have they replaced God, the God replacement, in an agnostics worldview? They've replaced it with themselves. Why would that be a true statement? They believe whatever they believe is what's best for them, instead of having God say what's best for them. They believe whatever they just believe. Okay, yeah, right, they have made themselves the determiner of what is right and wrong, what is real, what is not real right. They have made themselves the source right For the decisions they make. Right. That's really the. If we get down to it a lot of times, that's the God replacement and a lot of your friends and maybe people just classmates, family members who aren't Christians, if you really boil it down to it a lot of time, the conversation you're wanting to have is just eventually to help someone see that they've just substituted God and they've made themselves God in their life Right, and you see that come out in a lot of ways, right? Well, I'm the one who wants to determine what is right or wrong. I want to determine what is real and what is not real. It's up to me to decide what I'm going to do with God. Right, he may be there, but it really doesn't matter if I do anything with it or not. It's really inconsequential. But it really doesn't matter if I do anything with it or not. It's really inconsequential, right? So, a lot of times, what what people do is they substitute themselves for God in their life, and that's really at the heart of almost every sinful worldview or belief that's out there. It goes all the way back to the garden of Eden. If you think about the original sin with Adam and Eve. God told Adam and Eve to what? Yeah, not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, right? He said anything else, knock yourself out, enjoy it. Knock yourself out, enjoy it. Right. But this one tree, don't eat from it. What'd they do? They ate from it. Right? The sin was not that they ate fruit from a tree, right, the sin is that they said they did not have to submit to God's authority in their life. The sin was that they wanted to be their own authority in life. They wanted to replace God with themselves, right, and we've been doing that ever since over and over and over again. So so that would be, you know. So if we're taking that, we might know quickly, as we talk with someone and we unpack what they believe and why they don't really want to place their faith in Jesus. We might really get to the point of quickly realizing, oh, you've substituted God for something else in your life, just your own opinions and your own thoughts. Or maybe you place somebody else's opinions there and you're following what a person says. Right, you've replaced God with something. But then you can go deeper, right With that, and you could say how is that contradictory? How are they contradicting themselves? Well, how does what they believe contradict itself or anything else they see around them, itself or anything else they see around them? How, for, like someone who is an agnostic who maybe says, sure, there may be a God, but but you know it's kind of inconsequential whether he's there or not, like we realize he's kind of substituted his own intellect right In the place of God? How is that a contradiction to what we know and what we can see around us? Is that a contradiction to what we know and what we can see around us. How does a God create the entire world? Okay, all right, yes, so you guys are getting to it. You're getting right to the heart of where I would go. In a conversation like that, right, I would say I was like man. You know I'm kind of sarcastic, so sometimes that comes out in my conversations. But you know, I might say, my goodness, you are brilliant, brilliant, right, because you're the first person I've ever met, right, who could say they think there might be a God out there, but it doesn't matter what they do with him. So you're telling me that, right, if there's a God, someone who is omnipotent, all powerful right, all knowing right, someone who exists outside of just our world, right, like he exists outside of time, you're saying that there could be somebody like that, but he has no bearing on your life. That's interesting that you could say both of those things could be true, that there could be a God like that, but what you do with him really doesn't matter, and that you really don't have to. Your life is not like impacted by him in any way. Do you see the contradiction there in that, right? So begin talking about that, right, that's a conversation to have. You don't have to be like accusatory about it. You don't have to get like argumentative about it. Put it in the form of questions, have it in like a conversation, like how did you get there? Like how, when you're thinking, did you get to a place where you could say, like someone who has God status exists, but it really doesn't impact my life? Right, and you know and really want and then listen to what they say. Right, like how did you get to that place? Because I couldn't get there right, like I could not get where you are. So help me understand how you got there, right, because why? Because you're seeing the contradiction between those two things. Someone is saying we could also use this third one right here. How has that person, with their worldview, oversimplified things? What would we say about our example? How is that belief an oversimplification of life? Then Can you think of it? Can you think of something? Okay, okay, yeah, and that's exactly. Yes, both of these things, right, ties into the contradiction, for sure, and sometimes these are one in the same right. The contradiction could be that you've oversimplified it, um, but I would say, yes, absolutely, that you know. So you're telling me that the thing I should base my life on and how I make decisions, how I process right and wrong, how I know what is true, how I know what is false, how I know what is true, how I know what is false, how I understand why I'm here and what this life holds when it's over. Right, like, that's another part of your worldview. Is what happens when you die? Right, that's part of your worldview. And so for someone who says, yeah, there's a God, but it's really up to me to decide what I'm going to do with that information, about whether I want to accept it or not, right, so you're telling me. Right. And so a good way to talk about that is to say you know, kind of lean in asking questions, say something like so you created the world, right, like, like, what have you done? Right, like, like you know, did you make yourself right? Did you, did you, did you create your mind? Right, like, how did you even get the mind to think that there could be a God but I don't really have any responsibility where he's concerned to do anything with him? Like, how did you even get the knowledge to be able to arrive at that conclusion? How did you even get the brain capacity to even think through that and rationalize it. Right, it's an oversimplification. Right, because they can't right. At the end of the day, we know that right, like our minds. Right Our complex things. Right the ability to think, the ability to reason, the ability to make judgment calls about right and wrong, and right good and bad. Like to say that the that you know, the ability to do that just rests within ourselves, that somehow that is something we did, like we all know that's not true. We didn't create ourselves. Right, it's an oversimplification to get to a place Right, to just say, hey, the source of truth is within me, even if there is a God out there who made everything, the source for truth is in me. Wow, you've contradicted yourself and you've really oversimplified things at that point. And then the last one. This is where every conversation should get to, at some point that you have with someone, even if they have a completely different view of the world than you do. Talk to them about how Jesus is better than whatever it is they've chosen to believe. That is the easiest thing that you can do if you have a relationship with him, because guess what you get? To just talk about what he's done in your life and how you've seen him prove time and time again that he is better than anything else the world could offer. So how could we do that for this guy, this agnostic, right, who says, yeah, there may be a God, but he doesn't have any kind of consequence or impact on my life? Like I don't really it's up to me to decide if or what I'm going to do with him. Right, like, the source for truth is within me, not outside of me. Right, we've talked about how that's a contradiction, we've talked about how that's an oversimplification. But how is Jesus, how is our relationship with Jesus better than what this guy has chosen to base his life on? What would you say to that person if you were wanting to say can I just show you? Right, you've taken time with him. Right, you've had lunch with them. Right, You've gone to Black Rifle. You've sat down and had coffee with them. You've hung out. Right, you've kept it very relational, very conversational. You haven't been argumentative, right, trying to, you know, preach at them and beat them over the head. You've listened to what they had to say. You've asked questions. You've tried to say, hey, I'm not where you are, so show me how you got there. Right, and you've let them talk and finally you get to the place where you can say, but can I just share with you how Jesus is better than what you've chosen to base your life on? Can I just show you that? What would you say to that person? If you had gotten to that place in a conversation the person we've been talking about how would you show them you can tell them how Jesus has moved in your life personally and how you can see him within your church community, around you? Yeah, exactly, personal examples, personal examples, personal stories, absolutely Now. But here's the deal. Personal stories, absolutely Now. But here's the deal. Pick personal examples that are really, that really apply to the situation that you're dealing with. Right, like, yeah, sharing your testimony is great, but if the thing we're trying to help someone see is how they're contradicting themselves and how they've oversimplified the meaning of life by saying it's really up to their ability to process information and then decide what they're going to do with it, right, like, like, really, you right. How would you say to them oh, my goodness, like, placing your faith in Jesus is so much better than placing your faith in yourself. That's the that's really at the heart of that. If that's what we're doing with an agnostic. That's really at the heart of that. If that's what we're doing with an agnostic, we are saying here is how placing your faith in Jesus is better than placing your faith in yourself. So what kind of examples might you give them to prove that is true in your life? Give me some real ones. Have you ever had a time where you have placed your faith in yourself and your own abilities or your own intellect, your own good works right, your own you know personality or charisma? Have you ever done that? Where you've, where you put all your confidence in what you possess, how did that go Tragic? Now, have you ever had a moment where you recognize your inability right, that man, I don't have the answers right, like I struggle, like I'm weak, I deal with temptation, I don't always make good decisions right, and so I can't put my confidence or my faith in myself. I've got to put it. I put it in Jesus. And how did that turn out when we relied on him? And how did that turn out when we relied on him instead of ourselves? That's a way to do that. Last conversation question there in these truth conversations. Could I just give you a real life example in my own life of a time where I tried to figure out life on my own. I was dealing with a difficult circumstance and I tried to just handle it and figure it out by myself. And you know what I realize I may, I may, I may succeed some, but eventually you know I'm going to fail, right, but you know. But when I rely on Christ, when I place my faith in him, but you know, but when I rely on Christ, when I place my faith in him, I can have peace, I can have confidence, the strength to do the things that I can't do on my own. I can trust that he can do them through me. And I can also trust that, even when I blow it, still that, because my faith is in him and not in me, I can have confidence that I'm forgiven and I'm accepted and I'm loved and that I'm part of his family and he will pick me back up and work in my life and continue to give me the opportunity to grow Right man. Jesus is so much better than me placing my confidence in myself. So you kind of see how this works. We just picked one little scenario, but here's the challenge I would give you guys learn how to use these four questions to help people get to a place where you can make the case for how Jesus is better. Another one that you're going to come across, I guarantee, over and over again, is someone saying well, you know, life only has meaning, the meaning that you give it. Right. There really is no God. Right, like, if you need a spiritual crutch just to believe that there's something out there that gives you strength, great. But really, at the end of the day, it is really just about, it's just about you, it's just about what you want to believe, and yours is going to be different from mine, but that doesn't make yours good and mine bad or mine bad and yours good. None of that matters. Everything is just relative. So you just follow your heart and you just do your thing and I'll do mine, and we'll all just be happy. Don't try to put your true standard on me and I won't try to put mine on you, and we'll all just coexist and life will be just grand. Right, that's kind of the. That is like the theme of our world right now. Right, but you can use these right here and you can quickly expose what they've substituted for God. Right. Again, it gets back to self. They've put themselves there. But the contradiction is but what if you believe I'll really make this simple Right? What if you believe in your heart of hearts that it's OK to kill me and I really, in the heart of hearts, believe it's not okay to kill me? Right, are you allowed to kill me with no consequence? We're like no, daniel, that's stupid. Who says right If all truth is relative? Look, oh well, no, there are some things we can know. Killing is wrong. Well, where did you get that? How do you know killing is wrong? Because you just told me it's up to me to determine what I believe about what's right and wrong. It's an oversimplification. Everybody realizes there is a standard for truth outside of themselves and you can take it to that example every time. If you're like, oh OK, I get it Right, like when you get to some of these things that we believe, like, oh well, human life has value. Well, how do you know it has value If there's no God who created it, if we're all just the product of chance, then why does life have value, right? So just don't be afraid to think right when somebody comes at you with a belief that sounds very contrary to what you hear in church and what you read in the Bible, don't just shut down and go into a bubble right. Explore it a little bit, like, think about it with them, right, because what you'll do is you'll eventually find the contradictions, how it's replaced God, how it oversimplifies things, and you'll start to see how man, what the Bible says about Jesus is so much better than anything the world has to offer from any other belief that's out there. So don't be afraid to do that, because here's here's one of the convictions that I have. The longer I'm in ministry, the longer I'm around people. I think, when we go back to those reasons we looked at about why people are walking away from the church and and even from considering faith in Christ, you know, remember, one of those answers is the church wouldn't listen when they came with their doubts and the church wouldn't even dialogue with them about things that maybe were opposed to what we believe. I think the reason we've done that right is because we're scared, because we don't believe the Bible has the answers. I think the church is guilty of that. At our core, we at least don't live like we believe the Bible has the answers to deal with people's doubts, to deal with other worldviews, but can I tell you guys, it does. And so one of the amazing things each and every one of us has the opportunity to do as a Christian is to study this, to know it, to ask questions and to bring those questions to the word of God, because the word of God has answers, and the more we realize that, the stronger our conviction gets that this is what we should build our lives on. And if that becomes more and more conviction, then we're going to go to it more and more, right, and then we're going to have kind of a quiet confidence to be able to engage with other people that we love, that we care about, about these kinds of things, right, without getting defensive or scared to do it. So, last thing, and then I'm going to let you guys go, scared to do it. So last thing, and then I'm going to let you guys go. Remember I said the third thing we had to think about first of all. What was the first one? Remember that you can't what you can't change a heart, right? You're not going to change anybody's heart, you're not going to talk anybody into believing, right? That's a, that's a God thing. So you can just relax and let him use you Right. The second one was deal with truth. Right, find those truth substitutes that people have, and we just got through walking through that. But the third point was build a relationship, don't build an argument. Okay, sometimes our knowledge of the Bible, we want to use it as an offensive weapon, right, to just like go to battle with somebody who doesn't believe it, just to make them look foolish. I've never seen that work either. To draw someone to Jesus, right, it's got to be done in the context of relationships. So what do we mean by that? It's going to take time. It's probably not going to be one conversation that you have with someone. It's probably not going to be one conversation that you have with someone, right, who is not a follower of jesus, who has really deep doubts and questions. It's going to take time. So be willing to invest the time. It's going to take compassion. You got to care about the person, right, you've got it. You've got to care about the person, right, you've got to. You've got to care about not just be upset that they don't believe what you believe, but be like, oh my goodness, like I hate it for you, right, that you go through your entire life with no security, with no peace, with no purpose, because you don't believe there's a God who made you in his image and who who created you for a purpose. Right, you think all of that is just, you know, by chance. Like, how do you live like that? Right, have compassion when you think about people who have these views that don't have Christ at the center. Right, allow the compassion you would have for them. Like that must be really difficult. You must have some real seasons of of worry and fear, and right that you walk through, right, uh, if you're trying to walk through it without Jesus. So, be compassionate, be honest. When you don't have an answer that someone brings to you, it's OK to say you don't have an answer, to say I've never thought about it that way and I don't know how to respond. Can I think about it and can we talk about it later? And then you go talk to somebody like Garrett or like me or like Pastor Jason, right, and you say, hey, here's the situation I was presented, how would I deal with this and we'll try to help, right, but be honest enough to say, hey, I've never thought about it that way, but I'm happy to think about it that way with you and we'll try to work through it. Or to say, hey, I've dealt with those same doubts before. I asked those same questions. Can I tell you how I've worked through them? Be honest. And then the last one just know it can be messy. It's not always going to be easy. Every conversation is probably not going to turn into a situation where that person sees the light and they go oh, my goodness, I was so wrong and you were so right and I'm ready to place my faith in Jesus right. It may be a lifelong conversation. There may be twists and turns. There may be moments where they like get ticked off right that you didn't validate their beliefs right, and they may not want anything to do with you for a little while. But yet you keep showing up, you keep being kind, you keep being compassionate in their life and then they give you another chance. It can get messy, so just be OK with the mess. If we can do these things, if we can start to get better at processing the substitute for God and how to walk them through what that looks like, we'll get a lot better at having conversations with people who believe differently than we do and we'll have a much better chance at pointing people toward Jesus. Cool, is this helpful? Is this helpful Just to be able to deal with it? Hey, here's the thing I'd like to offer to you guys. You guys know I'm here at the church. If you're a guest and you're not part of the, you're not always here in the youth group at FBC I am always around. I would be more than happy at any point to sit down with you and deal with like a real life example you might have of a friend or a family member that you're trying to have conversations with. Like please, I mean it, I would be more than happy to sit down one on one and help you process exactly what you're working through with someone, or maybe your own doubts. What you're working through with someone, or maybe your own doubts, maybe things that you're struggling with about how do I reconcile what's going on in my life right now with what I know about God. How do I make those two things work together? Because right now they don't seem to Like let's talk about those things right, because we don't listen and where we aren't willing to engage with you on things that you're wrestling with or things that other people are wrestling with that you want to help, so let us be your resource to help you do that. Okay, cause this is something we're going to. We're all going to spend a lifetime learning. I'm still learning to do this, uh, so it's part of it, but it's a good place to start a conversation. Okay, all right. Well, that's all the time we got. So, uh, I was told to tell you that if your small group leader has already told you where to meet, go there. If they didn't go back to the hub and gallery and wait for them there. Okay, thank you guys for coming to this one. I enjoyed it.